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 | Thoughts on friendly fire... | |
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XenOz3r0xT
Super Regular
Shotgun Quick
Draw
| | P: | 06/20/2022 11:52 EST |
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Had a lot typed out but for the sake of you all not reading a novel I wrote and for people not getting triggered from all walks of life, skill, POVs, etc. I’m just going to say its best to leave it as a Friday evening kind of thing. | |
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Help
Super Regular
Crack-Powered Capper
|  | | P: | 06/20/2022 12:10 EST |
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 | gg#4 wrote:
| Help wrote:
FF is a bit painful at the best of time and just stupid if you are with the herd of grapes against the select grapefruit, as FF nullifies the numbers advantage a lot. With that said, I know a few love it, so I think a compromise like FF Fridays work.
FF turns from a liability to an asset only with good communications and a well organized team. And public servers just aren’t that. | |
It only nullifies the number advantage in the sense that poorly ranked people (more likely to be on the number advantage) have zero game sense and communication.
LETS ALL SIT ON BOTTOM SPIRAL!!! YAY!!! I NORMALLY SIT ON BOTTOM SPIRAL BUT SOMEONE ELSE IS HERE. LETS HAVE A PARTY! OH WAS THAT A FLY? LETS LEAVE MY DEFENDED SPOT EMPTY AND NOT TELL ANYONE.
A team with 16 should still be able to defend with FF on. It just requires spam reduction and spacing out.
1.) 2nd floor catching anything coming battlements/grate
2.) Top ele catching anything 1st floor misses
3.) Bottom ele catching anything top ele misses
4.) Top spiral catching anything 2nd floor misses
5.) Bottom spiral catching anything top spiral misses
6.) 1st Floor watching the two entries to ramp room.
7.) Front Door watching water spiral and front door.
8.) 4 engies in basement (1 sg on flag doing the 90, 1 sg x flag, 1 sg back of SH, 1 sg end LH
Then you still got 5 players left to go offense, one of which can be engie to do O teles.
Wow...Logic... | |
Exactly my point, it takes coordination to set up a functional defense on FF that doesn’t kill itself off. And if you are on the horde of grape team, you won’t get that. | |
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mmarino51589
Super Regular
Soldier Flag
Defense
| | | P: | 06/20/2022 12:10 EST |
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| I really didn't see a lot of griefing while FF was on | |
Maybe because people don't want to get !whinered
| Yelling at a new player is not going to help them learn | |
I'm curious to see stats and analytics of "new" players to this server...to expound upon that, to see the information regarding new players (not alternate STEAMID's) that are new and stick around (I'd bet it's very low) | |
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"Maybe because people don't want to get !whinered"
Ballsack was bitching up a storm in teamchat... did not get !whinered. Why? Because it was teamchat. Though he DID leave when I said in voicechat that he was pretty useless playing Sniper when we could have used another O or D player...
The enemy team had no snipers at the time, and he wasn't hitting anyone crossing the bridge. At least the other Sniper we had was new, and likely didn't know how else he could help.
"I'm curious to see stats and analytics of "new" players to this server...to expound upon that, to see the information regarding new players (not alternate STEAMID's) that are new and stick around (I'd bet it's very low)"
Well, I was nice to you, pointed you to the forums, and you stuck around, didn't you?
But that's pretty much my point. If people are assholes to them, you guarantee they won't stick around.
Only Drippy- has access to IP info, so none of us on the server can tell if an account might be an Alt or not. So the best solution is to just try and be somewhat welcoming, and maybe, just maybe, a new player will hang around and become a valued member of our community/server.
Just a random question to the room at large: But why is "being nice" to people such a problem these days?
I love the friendly banter we all have as much as the next guy (maybe more, since I can use the !warn command in a joking manner).... but I always try to be nice to new players, especially if they ask questions. | |
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Help
Super Regular
Crack-Powered Capper
| | | P: | 06/20/2022 15:48 EST | | E: | 06/20/2022 15:49 EST |
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| mmarino51589 wrote:
| I really didn't see a lot of griefing while FF was on | |
Maybe because people don't want to get !whinered
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Agreed, some may bitch including myself (screw FF 😁) in team chat, but I assure you the ranting would be significantly greater without whining bans in pub chat. Not placing my view on that topic, but don’t expect much whining when it’s a bannable offense. | |
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mmarino51589
Super Regular
Soldier Flag
Defense
| | | P: | 06/20/2022 16:02 EST |
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| Ballsack was bitching up a storm in teamchat... did not get !whinered. Why? Because it was teamchat. | |
Yeah, not gonna lie...I just don't understand the distinction between complaining in pub chat vs. doing it in team chat. It's still whining, isn't it? Is there anything outlined in the official rules that talks about this or is it completely subjective and up to an admin's mood at the time?
| Well, I was nice to you, pointed you to the forums, and you stuck around, didn't you? | |
Let me clarify - I mean new players to TFC in general. I would take a guess that VERY few people in the world see a 23 year old game with antiquated graphics and say "yep...this is my new game of choice and I'm going to sink hours into it and make a concerted effort to get good and learn and visit this one particular's servers forums and THEN learn the particulars about this one servers culture and rules so that I can vibe with them" | |
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XenOz3r0xT
Super Regular
Shotgun Quick
Draw
| | P: | 06/20/2022 16:22 EST |
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| Ignorant_Florist wrote:
"I'm curious to see stats and analytics of "new" players to this server...to expound upon that, to see the information regarding new players (not alternate STEAMID's) that are new and stick around (I'd bet it's very low)"
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I wouldn’t doubt most new accounts are people with alts trying to bypass the balancer. I mean as much as I want to be on gaba’s team the legit way, he isn’t worth the $4.99 + tax (just kidding gaba you know I wuv you). But seriously, it is nice to be on a team with gaba but such a pain in the ass to make it happen. | |
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Just name yourselves Keymaster and Gatekeeper and we'll know there's trouble if you're ever on the same team. | |
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Thanks again, Iggy, for turning it on for Father's Day weekend. Friday nights I'm not on because, like Walter on "The Big Lebowski" I'm "shomer shabbos!" And thank you all for chiming in. Looks like a vast majority of you all enjoy the spam fest with a little spicing things up every once in a while.
@[SHS]Hitz, I did not notice any drop in people playing over the weekend. Saw a few regulars. Both on Saturday and Sunday night there was 10-20+ players on. Only a few complaints, most people stayed on.
@pepperjack, I too wonder what it is that makes newcomers see this game and think, "hey! Let's check this out!" I think for us old timers there's the nostalgia factor. I also think this game has great gameplay and balance. | |
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| mmarino51589 wrote:
| Ballsack was bitching up a storm in teamchat... did not get !whinered. Why? Because it was teamchat. | |
Yeah, not gonna lie...I just don't understand the distinction between complaining in pub chat vs. doing it in team chat. It's still whining, isn't it? Is there anything outlined in the official rules that talks about this or is it completely subjective and up to an admin's mood at the time?
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For myself, which is all I can really speak for, the pubchat vs teamchat usually involves bitching about something that could be used as "info against your team". You know, shit like "Hey, don't go into the Respawn while infected", or "Our Defense suxorz"... that kind of thing.
But personally, I'll even extend that to just random bitching that may not "harm the team". In pubchat, complaining about FF, or other non-team harmful thing... I'll give a !whiner if it's more than just one line. So, take it as "The first one is free, but this isn't a chat room, so just STFU about it." If you decide to go on and on about it (again, in pubchat), then I'll !whiner you, because it ends up being disruptive to the game going on.
Other Admins may !whiner you on the first line, which is why I won't speak for them. They may let it go entirely, until they are tired of reading it. I like to be consistent. I'll give you ONE freeby in pubchat, then start !whiner'ing.
| | Well, I was nice to you, pointed you to the forums, and you stuck around, didn't you? | |
Let me clarify - I mean new players to TFC in general. I would take a guess that VERY few people in the world see a 23 year old game with antiquated graphics and say "yep...this is my new game of choice and I'm going to sink hours into it and make a concerted effort to get good and learn and visit this one particular's servers forums and THEN learn the particulars about this one servers culture and rules so that I can vibe with them" | |
I knew what you meant... but I don't know any other way to track it aside from IP address. We know that those "IP changing" sites aren't allowed to alter your IP when joining the server... So based on that, we can only assume (yes, I know... shut it) that these players are either new, or have a new ISP.
I think what draws them to the game the most, is that they are coming from TF2, and want to see what the older version is like. Granted, they are two very opposite games. I usually tell people this when they switch over. TF2 is pretty slow paced, while TFC is absolute chaos.
But that's why I try to remind everyone that we were all new to the game once, and that it requires patience to learn. I also do say that once you learn it, it's worth it to play, despite the "old ass graphix". | |
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| Backalleybuttlove wrote:
Thanks again, Iggy, for turning it on for Father's Day weekend. Friday nights I'm not on because, like Walter on "The Big Lebowski" I'm "shomer shabbos!" And thank you all for chiming in. Looks like a vast majority of you all enjoy the spam fest with a little spicing things up every once in a while.
@[SHS]Hitz, I did not notice any drop in people playing over the weekend. Saw a few regulars. Both on Saturday and Sunday night there was 10-20+ players on. Only a few complaints, most people stayed on.
@pepperjack, I too wonder what it is that makes newcomers see this game and think, "hey! Let's check this out!" I think for us old timers there's the nostalgia factor. I also think this game has great gameplay and balance. | |
Hey, man... I may joke a lot with you about living in Israel, or being Jewish, but you do seem like a cool enough person. You know that I'm just messing around with you, and that's points "in my book". Much respect, man. So, you're very welcome, and feel free to hit me up on Steam if you want to play together on the server. I don't mind turning it on for a round here and there upon request. Frankly, I really enjoy when it's on, but I can play with it off. I just think that with it on, you have to play a bit smarter. | |
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Iggy, if there's one thing I've learned living in Israel the past 10 years is that we could all use a Jew joke every once in a while 😆 | |
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sp0t
Super Regular
Assault Cannon
Lover
| | | P: | 06/21/2022 14:15 EST | | E: | 06/21/2022 15:12 EST |
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A Hasidic Jew with a parrot on his shoulder walks into a bar and the bartender asks "Hey, where'd you get that thing?"
And the parrot says "Israel. They're running around all over the place." | |
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I probably 'whine' in voice as much, if not more, than anyone else. Part of that is pure frustration with what I percieve as stupidity. Part of it is simply the way I play the game. I get very focused on the game to the point where my kids laugh at me and my wife gets irritated with me when I have a sharp intake of breath and tense up when an enemy enters my defensive zone (usually the ramp room or the spiral).
So, I'm very intense and when I talk then my voice and 'excitement' level is raised a lot. That pretty much automatically makes it seem I'm yelling at them. But I'll also say that when I tell them not to run around infected and don't come near me when infected, then they come right over and infect me...yeah I do get pissed off and my voice goes to the next level. I had that happen last night with a player, he apologized after saying he didn't know that, and we had some small conversations after that.
I'll also say that while I do yell at stupidity fairly often, I also am more complementary of good stuff than most players. I think players for healing me, I complement the team on keeping the defense from capping a flag in the spiral, and I complement the team for getting caps, particularly the first cap or when there isn't a lot score in the game.
I also get irritated when dying regularly. To O players its a fact of life. To me its a sign of failure, particularly if the O player got by me. | |
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| Backalleybuttlove wrote:
Iggy, if there's one thing I've learned living in Israel the past 10 years is that we could all use a Jew joke every once in a while 😆 | |
Well, I tend to agree with you, but I also know that a lot of sensitive asses like to get their panties all bunched up when someone (especially with German heritage) drops a Jew joke.
I mean, shit... my family came over to the US long before WWII, never supported the Nazis, and to be honest about it, three of my great uncles fought against those assholes. One of those three came home in a bag.
With that said, I do disagree with Israel and their treatment of Palestinians, because, in my eyes, it makes them hypocrites. Of course, that's on the Israeli government, not the people themselves. Try treating them better, and allowing them to live in better than poverty conditions.... and they actually might be less hostile. Just seems logical to me. The more you oppress people, the more hostile they are. We see it here in the US as well. Just with different demographics. | |
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