|
 | When does gameplay cross the line into griefing? | |
|
| | |
| | |
Just to pose a question to the room at large:
In your opinion, when does gameplay cross the line into griefing/game disruption?
Gonna toss some names about:
[NC]MAC
Sourie
Suicide Bomber
We, the regulars, know what they do. All three of the above mentioned play from the Main Respawn area.
MAC builds SGs right near the exit, Suicide Bomber snipes from the exit door, and Sourie... he'll pipe from there, then hold the entrance door open and hide in the little hallway.
All three of those players draw spam, and all three of them KNOW it.
Either they do it intentionally to draw the spam, or they simply don't care that they're drawing the spam.
It begs the question: Why?
I've spectated all three, repeatedly.
Suicide Bomber is just looking to protect his k/d ratio.
Sourie, pretty much the same thing. Want to grab health to prevent being killed.
MAC..... builds SG after SG after SG right in front of the respawn.
I've been on their team when they've been asked to not play from there, or not draw the spam they draw.
Obviously, their gameplay IS within the rules, and they've not suffered any repercussions of said gameplay(aside from being bitched at by their team). But I'm curious what everyone else thinks of this. Does KNOWING it draws apam, and doing it anyway, cross the line into "game disruption"?
| |
|
|
Spoofer
Super Regular
WMD Creator
| | P: | 12/04/2016 21:09 EST | | E: | 12/04/2016 21:23 EST |
| | |
IDK about Mac, and I've personally only ever seen Sourie play from 2F opposite spiral or 2F covering ramp.
As for the ironically named Suicide Bomber... yeah... He's constantly asked not to play from main spawn, but he doesn't even begin to give a shit. And then it's open season on main spawn, even in the rare event that he's not there, simply because the opposite team expects him to be (and who could blame them). People have seen him play all the way back from actual respawn point doors before, if there's enough traffic to keep the exit door open.
It absolutely is team disruption, IMO, when he performs an action that knowingly and constantly will result in a loophole that allows the opposite team to break the main respawn spam rule. It ruins the fun for half the server's players due to his willingness to sabotage his own team every single time he plays.
I would be willing to teach him everything I know to make him a better player and to encourage him to step out from spawn and level up his game to where he feels more confident, and I'm sure others would be willing to do the same. I offer my advice to anyone who asks anyway, but this guy absolutely needs something to put him on the right path. I'd rather he be a productive player than lose him entirely. But if he refuses to change his ways, my personal opinion would be to warn him that if he doesn't, he'd no longer be welcome here for the good of the rest of the server. But it's obviously not my server so.
For what it's worth, I have a month-or-so old demo of him playing Medic where he stands outside enemy main respawn door spamming medkit on it infecting fresh spawners at least 3 or 4 times (though it would take me forever to find it at this point). I (and others IIRC) !reported him a few times, but I guess no one was around at the time. So it's not like he respects even the black and white server rules either.
Sidenote: I also despise the select few players who, on an already disadvantaged team, will willingly sit in spawn the entire game "waiting the round out". If they're going to give up and refuse to do anything to help salvage and contribute to their team, the least they should have to do is join spec. I'd also consider that game disruption, personally, via willingly keeping the teams uneven (and in effect sabotaging the autobalance feature). The frequency of lopsided games are already bad enough without that kind of thing going down. | |
|
|
blacksheiladog
Super Regular
Heavy Flag
Percher
|  | | P: | 12/05/2016 00:40 EST | | E: | 12/05/2016 02:41 EST |
| | |
I can personally attest as to Spoofer's ability to help a player get better. In my case he generously spent some time with me and it improved my gameplay by at least 50%. Let me anticipate Walnuts asking whether 50% better than 0 is still 0? | |
|
| |
| |
| |
| | |
Spoofer, there's one thing I wish you'd do......
Play with the name, "Spoofer". ;)
I have your ID written down, and have had to cross-reference it a few times. Now I've just got a sticky note on my monitor because of the name/ID issue.
Okay, back to topic:
I know for a fact that all three I listed have been asked(nicely, BTW) to not draw spam to the respawn. I know, because, aside from the other members of the team bitching at them, I've talked to them nicely about it.
As far as Suicide Bomber(specifically) goes..... I've banned him for going for cheap kills in the Sniper Side respawn. If you get his k/d ratio low enough, he'll change classes, and go on Offense. While this isn't a bad thing, he'll take the opportunity to go for cheap kills if he thinks he can get away with it.
He's a good Sniper, but he cares more about his k/d ratio than he does about not fucking his own team over.
I think that's worse than some newbie who goes into the respawn infected, because they simply don't know better.
I've seen rounds where the spam attraction has changed the outcome. One is playing from there(and this also goes for the other two, as well), knowingly attracting spam, which is effectively trapping a good chunk of the team in the respawn. Players in respawn can't capture the enemy flag, and they can't defend their own flag. Meanwhile, the enemy team not only has free reign to spam, but throws in taunts as well.
You can't tell me that doesn't suck the fun out of a round if you're on that team.
I wondered if Sourie even spoke English, until he started doing some whining. Now I know, he understands... he just doesn't care.
But....... "doesn't care" doesn't indicate that they are coming here to specifically fuck their team over. No, the "intent" is to preserve their own personal stats.
My personal feeling on Suicide Bomber is that he shouldn't play here when the server is above half-full. That's when he goes full on "spawn hugger". When he has no issues getting to the deck, he plays like a normal person. He's actually pretty good at the class.
Sourie plays the same way, no matter how many people are on. He's pipe trapping the same few spots all the time, and hugging the respawn to keep from dying and to keep his ammo levels up.
MAC's SGs are spam magnets, but fairly effective. My personal opinion is that I'd prefer he just move it to the middle of the room, or at least, a little further from the exit.
Side note: Suicide Bomber and Sourie have both been perm'd from the Evil servers for playing from the respawn, which they have a rule against. I'm not suggesting such a rule here.
| |
|
| |
| | |
If they intentionally play from spawn with the knowledge that doing so will bring increased spawn spam from the other team, then they are intentionally drawing that spam.
I can't throw a grenade at main spawn but I can get one thrown at main spawn.
That ain't right. | |
|
|
Spoofer
Super Regular
WMD Creator
| | P: | 12/05/2016 17:50 EST | | E: | 12/05/2016 17:58 EST |
| | |
 | Ignorant_Florist wrote:
Sourie plays the same way, no matter how many people are on. He's pipe trapping the same few spots all the time, and hugging the respawn to keep from dying and to keep his ammo levels up. | |
I don't play at the same time as him all that often, but when I do he's usually in the corner of 2F piping spiral. I played against him late at night a couple days ago during maybe a 12 player game, and he seemed to be playing normally imo, chasing me down spiral when I got past him, defending flag in spiral, and even going down to basement when he knew I (or other O I presume) were down there. There was one moment I was heading up RR ramp to 2F and he ducked into spawn hall and opened the door, but doubled back instead to try to defend. I didn't see him run to spawn once all game. I actually admired his tenacity to try to defend against me that game. So he does play normally at least some of the time.
Now that I really think about it though, maybe I do recall some past, fuller games where he plays from closer to spawn, especially if the flag is up there. I can't really blame a demo for playing from spawn hall when the flag is up there though, as it's probably the best place to view the entire room and guard the flag while being semi-hidden from people coming up RR or from deck. I think I maybe recall him playing from spawn itself a few times, but honestly not as often as I see him play normally. It's night and day between him and Suicide Bomber, at the very least, IMO. | |
|
| |
| | |
| Bobfromjanitorial wrote:
If they intentionally play from spawn with the knowledge that doing so will bring increased spawn spam from the other team, then they are intentionally drawing that spam.
I can't throw a grenade at main spawn but I can get one thrown at main spawn.
That ain't right. | |
Which is why, IF they are playing from the respawn, you're allowed to attack them.
From the FAQ:
| There are legitimate reasons to spam the spawn as well. A streaking or statwhorish player may be playing out of (hugging) the respawn, in which case attacking them there is really your only chance of killing them. | |
Hiding in/near the respawn does not make them immune from attack. This is why, when a !report comes in about respawn spam, the admin has to watch to see if there's someone playing from there, or if the player accused is going for "cheap kills".
I see a lot of players who will toss a grenade towards the main respawn exit(sometimes it lands near the door, other times further away), while they are passing by on their way down the spiral. It's pretty obvious that their "intent" is to slow a possible pursuer. In a case like that, I'll usually PM them about it. If someone is playing from the exit, or even the hallway where the entrance is..... you can't really fault someone for trying to take that player out.
This is where "intent" comes in, and sometimes, it can be difficult to define it.
Now..... if the person playing from respawn starts !reporting people who are spamming it to try and kill them... then they are trying to fuck someone over, and I'll ban them for it. Kinda like how some people will retreat into the SS respawn, be followed in, and think they are "protected due to respawn"..... that's not how it works.
The other night, someone reported -X- for camping the respawn exit. What they didn't know is that I had the enemy flag, and ran in there to get health and grenades before capping. -X- was trying to get ME(the flag carrier)... so what he did was legal at that time. Having the enemy flag, and having run it from their base to ours, means that I wasn't a "freshly spawned player"... so "cheap kills" didn't apply. Any "freshly spawned players" that would have gotten killed would technically been "collateral damage", due to my presence.
It's all about "intent", you see. | |
|
|
Mr. Walnuts
Daycare Manager
Pipey FlagCatcher
| | | P: | 12/06/2016 05:55 EST |
| | |
I don't buy the "protecting their k/d ratio" bullshit. I never join a team to play with someone, but I sure as hell will join one to avoid playing with someone. And if these dickheads are on opposite teams, I see no point in playing. I've seen people booted for game disruption for lots less.
| |
|
|
Nookie
Super Regular
Shotgun Quick
Draw
| | P: | 12/06/2016 11:35 EST |
| | |
when it continues to be a constant problem when they play, remove such problem and be done with it. i for one can't believe suicide is still allowed to play considering all the complaints, every time they play. | |
|
| |
| | |
| Mr. Walnuts wrote:
I don't buy the "protecting their k/d ratio" bullshit. I never join a team to play with someone, but I sure as hell will join one to avoid playing with someone. And if these dickheads are on opposite teams, I see no point in playing. I've seen people booted for game disruption for lots less.
| |
Oddly enough, they always seem to gravitate to the Red team. No clue why.... Maybe they think Slesar has a nice ass. I don't know....
And as to your last point; Yeah, I've seen that, too.
I just don't know who did the booting.
| |
|
|
-[IBSC]-iLluSiON-
Daycare Manager
Killer Scout
| | | P: | 12/06/2016 17:51 EST | | E: | 12/06/2016 17:51 EST |
| | |
Not so much for gameplay per se, but my latest annoyance is when the player Cheesesteak is always yelling at a medic to heal his sorry ass. Even when we're in the other base, trying to get the enemy's flag. Harassing medics = annoying | |
|
| |
| | |
Yeah, but you can mute him, and nothing about the game actually changes.
| |
|
| |
| | |
True, hence my comment that it is not a grievance with gameplay. I typically don't mute people, anyways.
As for gameplay disruptions, I don't find Suicide Bomber and the like to be overly disruptive in their playing style. I don't agree with it, but I don't condone it.
They certainly draw more attention to the spawn area... So if I'm on the opposing team, I find it enjoyable. If I'm on the same team as Suicide Bomber, he only annoys me when he blocks spawn. I find that he is generally aware when people are trying to leave the spawn, so he moves. | |
|
|
Mr. Walnuts
Daycare Manager
Pipey FlagCatcher
| | | P: | 12/07/2016 14:13 EST |
| | |
I didn't typically mute people, either. Mainly because they didn't stay muted and it was just a pain in the ass to stop in every game and do it. I mentioned something about that here in forums and that situation changed (or maybe I hadn't been doing it right). They now stay muted from game to game (unless you reboot your game, maybe). I now have a handful that I keep muted. Man, you wouldn't believe how much more enjoyable it makes playing here just having a few less douche nozzles to listen to or turbo-scrolling your screen with inane shit. | |
|
| | | Forums > Whiners Corner (Archives) > When does gameplay cross the line into griefing? | |
