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 | Mouse guide | |
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[IOD]Snips
Super Regular
Speed Sniping
Master
|  | | P: | 08/07/2024 05:08 EST |
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Mouse Guide
by [IOD]Snips
A gamers most important instrument is the mouse. The shape, weight, texture and button layouts all contribute to "the overall feel" which outshines all the other features. The mouse needs to feel comfortable and natural in your hand at the end of the day. The size of your hand & being left vs right handed will be huge factors too. Certain hand sizes will accidently press side buttons or be unable to reach them effectively.
DPI
Dots Per Inch is something you can set your mouse to. A very large number of mice have a DPI toggle where you click that and it can change from 400/800/1600/3200 each time you click it. Downloading the software from the manufacturers website allows you to set custom numbers & then store those settings inside the mouse's onboard memory. Higher DPI will allow for slightly faster responsiveness, but be careful for smoothing & other issues when approaching extremely high DPI values on some mice due to the sensors involved, more on that later. Special note: Often times its impossible to know what your dpi is until you install the manufacturers software. Logitech and Asus mice software are kind of annoying and bloatware, so identifying your dpi and sending your new dpi to your mouse to whatever value you want and then uninstalling that software is ideal as the mouse will remember what you set it to across any computer you plug it into now.
eDPI
This is your in-game "sensitivity" multiplied by your DPI. So in TFC when you hit your ~ console key, type "sensitivity" & hit enter to see what yours is currently set to. If your mouse was set to 400dpi & your TFC console is showing sensitivity 4.0 then your eDPI is 1600. If you change your mouse DPI to 1600 and change your in-game sensitivity to 1.0 then your eDPI is the same, the exact same sensitivity as before, however your mouse would now perform slightly faster. IMPORTANT: make sure the "raw input" in your TFC Options>Mouse section is checked on, so that in your Windows>Control Panel>Mouse, that sensitivity slider will be ignored then. Turn off mouse acceleration in-game in the mouse options too.
HZ
The number of times per second the mouse polls or communicates with position changes. Most gamer mice are 1000hz but very detailed tests with specialized instruments do show a few ms faster when using 8000hz mice.
CLICK LATENCY
How long it takes from clicking the mouse to actually being registered. These are typically 0.1ms to over 20ms in gaming mice. Rtings also has a decent list too. Here is a comparison chart for instance: https://mousespecs.org/mouse-click-latencies/
SENSORS
The accuracy for displaying low jitter without smoothing across the spectrum of DPI values. Some sensors struggle to perform upto certain higher DPI values before applying a smoothing which then adds a few ms of latency to the movement of the mouse which is worse then click latency.
WIRED OR WIRELESS
Identify the true tested click latency for wired vs wireless mice, not with whatever manufacturers claim. Some mice can function as either corded or cordless. Visit websites that list mice & compare the values. Also keep in mind the distance from the transmitter to your mouse & realize any interference can add more latency. Buying a USB extension cord for your desk & placing the transmitter much closer to your mousepad can help too. I'll always prefer corded myself. Can buy a mouse bungee or simply use a piece of tap to force a few feet of cord on your desk to be locked in place so there's not extra slack dragging or affecting your aim too.
Mouse pads are extremely important too. Bragging about not needing one is silly for many reasons. Buy a great one for like $15 online or buy a few different ones such as soft or hard to experiment with. If you go the wireless mouse route, you can buy a wireless mouse + a wireless charging mousepad so that the mouse recharges when not in use resting on the pad too. | |
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[IOD]Snips
Super Regular
Speed Sniping
Master
| | | P: | 08/07/2024 05:08 EST | | E: | 08/07/2024 05:09 EST |
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Okay Snips so what would you do?
Last month I bought the Asus TUF M4 Air gaming mouse on Amazon on sale for $36 being the 2nd fastest click latency mouse out there, also as the #1 and #3-5 mice having the fastest click latency were all like $80-$200. The under 50gram weight made me very curious to tryout too! I was shocked at how similar in feel to my favorite mouse the Logitech MX 518 Legendary (2019 update version) or at least this new one feels quite natural to hold for me too.
So at 1000hz polling rate it's capable of 16,000 dpi. By default out of the box the toggle button changes from 400>800>1600>3200 and with the Asus software I can change those values from 100-16,000.
I took extra notice from a review I found that shows some interesting results. All the way up to 4900dpi there is no smoothing being applied which adds motion delay latency to movements. Starting at 5000dpi all the way to the max of 16000dpi there is smoothing resulting in roughly 2ms of movement latency.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/asus-tuf-m4-air/5.html
My TFC sensitivity was 4.3 & my old logitech mouse dpi was 400 so my eDPI was 1720. I'm actually adjusting rather quickly to 3040 eDPI as I'm typing this from the past two days, but might switch back down to 1720 for sniping, I'm not sure yet.
So now that I know my target eDPI is 3040 I have to pick one of two choices:
lock the mouse to 3200dpi & set in-game: sensitivity 0.95
3040/3200=0.95
OR
lock the mouse to 4800dpi & set in-game: sensitivity 0.6333333333333333
3040/4800=0.6333333333333333
Playing at 4800dpi might be the fastest possible value, my concern is the low amount of jitter present which could affect my aim. Playing at 3200dpi is probably the ultimate choice because:
a)No jitter at all
b)No possible interpolation as it's one of the presets
c)Other games without in-game sensitivity options would only be 5% faster if I got used to this eDPI speed for years to come.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09QRXBPQL | |
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[IOD]Snips
Super Regular
Speed Sniping
Master
| | | P: | 08/07/2024 05:14 EST |
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Again before people pour in saying
"omg 16,000 dpi is too fast!?!"
its all about eDPI.
For those that hate reading:
Bob's mouse is set to 400dpi & his tfc sensitivity is at 2.5
John's mouse is set to 16000dpi & his tfc sensitivity is at 0.0625
Both Bob and John have identical mouse movements in-game with an eDPI of 1000. So either of them moving their mouse 1 inch would result in identical in-game camera movements. | |
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Lengthy post, but I do think that’s good info to know | |
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I have dpi at 800 sniper sensitivity 1 offense sensitivity 7 raw mouse Input etc | |
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Logitech g502 is my fav gaming mouse.
Death adder was decent but cheaply made and buttons wore out after six ish months. | |
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Reckoner
Super Regular
Crack-Powered Capper
| | | P: | 08/07/2024 15:24 EST |
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[IOD]Snips
Super Regular
Speed Sniping
Master
| | | P: | 08/07/2024 16:04 EST |
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Ill test with the 25th anniversary version of tfc soon & see if that acts differently. I have a guess but want to rule out that possible difference first. | |
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[IOD]Snips
Super Regular
Speed Sniping
Master
| | | P: | 08/07/2024 19:33 EST |
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m_customaccel 0
m_customaccel_exponent 0
m_customaccel_max 0
m_customaccel_scale 0
I have these all turned to 0. Was curious to find that even with the first one set to 0, it feels like a difference when sniping when I changed the others from their default down to 0 too with mouse acceleration, even though mouse filter is unchecked and raw input is checked like i've always had. | |
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[IOD]Snips
Super Regular
Speed Sniping
Master
| | | P: | 08/07/2024 19:35 EST |
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m_mousethread_sleep
This setting does nothing unless you launch the game with -mousethread. So after you launch the game with that, setting this to 10 for instance gives you 100 updates per second of mouse data from the OPERATING SYSTEM not the mouse, which feels terrible on my 120hz display rendering my 360fps. Setting this to 1 would indeed be 1000hz, however setting this to 0 gets data at the maximum speed of the Operating System so is preferred. Especially now that 4000/8000hz mice exist.
My next experiment will be to see if launching -mousethread along with setting the m_mousethread_sleep 0 is the ultimate way to play compared to without. I couldn't really execute such tests without access to an 8000hz mouse & a 480hz monitor would certainly help. | |
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[IOD]Snips
Super Regular
Speed Sniping
Master
| | | P: | 08/07/2024 19:38 EST |
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wow, so it appears with Windows>controlpanel>mouse, if under the slider you turned off mouse acceleration and in-game options>mouse on that tab you have raw input checked (way less accel) or unchecked (way more accel), you're still getting a little mouse acceleration. I swear I remember reading about how that was fixed with direct input or something many MANY years ago. But I just tried it, getting different results. Perhaps I need to run dozens of more samples across wider desktops to finetune the results better still.
So launching tfc with these below actually turned off almost entirely mouse acceleration. Tried a dozen times to compare raw mouse input checked and unchecked after launching tfc with these and the difference between them now is so very small. I'm leaning towards "raw mouse input" turned on might be adding some acceleration just slightly, perhaps its a direct input issue. Unchecking raw mouse input also might be delivering just a few ms faster input, it's hard to tell. I'll experiment with sniping this week some more to try this. After I do some more experiments I'm going to make a TFC launch guide to consolidate my recommended settings.
-useforcedmparms
(this is needed for the other two to activate)
-noforcemaccel
-noforcemspd
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Reckoner
Super Regular
Crack-Powered Capper
| | | P: | 08/08/2024 02:35 EST |
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Awesome! Super thanks @ [IOD]Snips, I may experiment with this too :) !
I'll check out the (custom) accel settings a bit later! | |
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Boo Boo
Super Regular
Master HWGuy
| | | P: | 08/08/2024 20:26 EST | | E: | 08/08/2024 20:30 EST |
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 | [IOD]Snips wrote:
Mouse Guide
by [IOD]Snips
A gamers most important instrument is the mouse. The shape, weight, texture and button layouts all contribute to "the overall feel" which outshines all the other features. The mouse needs to feel comfortable and natural in your hand at the end of the day. The size of your hand & being left vs right handed will be huge factors too. Certain hand sizes will accidently press side buttons or be unable to reach them effectively.
DPI
Dots Per Inch is something you can set your mouse to. A very large number of mice have a DPI toggle where you click that and it can change from 400/800/1600/3200 each time you click it. Downloading the software from the manufacturers website allows you to set custom numbers & then store those settings inside the mouse's onboard memory. Higher DPI will allow for slightly faster responsiveness, but be careful for smoothing & other issues when approaching extremely high DPI values on some mice due to the sensors involved, more on that later. Special note: Often times its impossible to know what your dpi is until you install the manufacturers software. Logitech and Asus mice software are kind of annoying and bloatware, so identifying your dpi and sending your new dpi to your mouse to whatever value you want and then uninstalling that software is ideal as the mouse will remember what you set it to across any computer you plug it into now.
eDPI
This is your in-game "sensitivity" multiplied by your DPI. So in TFC when you hit your ~ console key, type "sensitivity" & hit enter to see what yours is currently set to. If your mouse was set to 400dpi & your TFC console is showing sensitivity 4.0 then your eDPI is 1600. If you change your mouse DPI to 1600 and change your in-game sensitivity to 1.0 then your eDPI is the same, the exact same sensitivity as before, however your mouse would now perform slightly faster. IMPORTANT: make sure the "raw input" in your TFC Options>Mouse section is checked on, so that in your Windows>Control Panel>Mouse, that sensitivity slider will be ignored then. Turn off mouse acceleration in-game in the mouse options too.
HZ
The number of times per second the mouse polls or communicates with position changes. Most gamer mice are 1000hz but very detailed tests with specialized instruments do show a few ms faster when using 8000hz mice.
CLICK LATENCY
How long it takes from clicking the mouse to actually being registered. These are typically 0.1ms to over 20ms in gaming mice. Rtings also has a decent list too. Here is a comparison chart for instance: https://mousespecs.org/mouse-click-latencies/
SENSORS
The accuracy for displaying low jitter without smoothing across the spectrum of DPI values. Some sensors struggle to perform upto certain higher DPI values before applying a smoothing which then adds a few ms of latency to the movement of the mouse which is worse then click latency.
WIRED OR WIRELESS
Identify the true tested click latency for wired vs wireless mice, not with whatever manufacturers claim. Some mice can function as either corded or cordless. Visit websites that list mice & compare the values. Also keep in mind the distance from the transmitter to your mouse & realize any interference can add more latency. Buying a USB extension cord for your desk & placing the transmitter much closer to your mousepad can help too. I'll always prefer corded myself. Can buy a mouse bungee or simply use a piece of tap to force a few feet of cord on your desk to be locked in place so there's not extra slack dragging or affecting your aim too.
Mouse pads are extremely important too. Bragging about not needing one is silly for many reasons. Buy a great one for like $15 online or buy a few different ones such as soft or hard to experiment with. If you go the wireless mouse route, you can buy a wireless mouse + a wireless charging mousepad so that the mouse recharges when not in use resting on the pad too. | |
Played around and slid my DPI up tp 25600. Took ten minutes to find my cursor.
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Speaking of curser..... is there a way to change the mouse pointer in Winblows?
Seriously asking.... I need that motherfucker to be easier to spot. | |
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Gize_
Super Regular
Scout Crowbar
Master
| | P: | 08/10/2024 15:15 EST |
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| Forums > General Discussion (Archives) > Mouse guide |
