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 | So people ask.... | |
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 | [IOD]Snips wrote:
| kyree wrote:
How is using Ai any different than sitting in a writers room with some strangers and collaborating? | |
Using AI to create music, art, stories and movies is an insecurity rooted within the person as they think they lack the creativity to compete with others OR they've convinced themself they need this edge to stand out or everyone is using AI. The truth is by using AI they rob themselves of the unique originality that would have make them stand out, as AI projects tend to get repetitive & recycled. Notice how some Netflix movies feel almost identical, or how some new pop or country songs sound nearly identical to one another? AI is getting overused in our culture.
If I wrote lyrics, musical composition or a story then I want to say I wrote it. Not that AI tools assisted in 10-70% of the creation or inspiration.
The feel of joy or pain should be felt by the listener, and replacing this with successful patterns or melodies removes the essence of such a reflection.
AI will have their place in countless fields including efficiency/jobs/driving, but robbing the human experience of 100% man made artistic work will be the ugly side in our culture. | |
THIS is a REALLY good point! We are all our own worst critics. Hell, if it wasn't for Rose constantly encouraging me to write Random Thoughts, that book would never have been published. If it wasn't for the mostly positive feedback I got from that, I never would have written the short stories included in Evidence of Autumn and The Cabin (Anthology books I contributed to). Hell, even the "Fan-Fictions" I wrote got positive feedback, which helped encourage me to continue writing. Not to mention the articles I wrote for a couple of sports websites along the way, and the positive feedback I got from them.
But also, thinking back, every single time I was starting to make some kind of decent headway with writing, the train got derailed. The same thing happened with doing stuff on YouTube... Just as I was getting going... my PC shit the bed, and set my sails on fire. So there went that.
Which is why I occasionally write stuff on Facebook for my Writer's page, and mostly make memes and post them on Social Media. | |
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[IOD]Snips
Super Regular
Speed Sniping
Master
|  | | P: | 11/29/2024 04:26 EST |
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If you ask AI to assemble a car according to specifications, or to follow a template made by the fastfood chain Subway in how to create an ideal footlong sandwich there is no human creativity or talent lost. There is no inspiration or artistic value in tasks requiring repetition & this is where AI will provide enormous value.
But people need to realize AI is going to literally "butcher" the human expression in all forms of art over time as many people prioritize wealth over originality. Books, paintings, music, poetry, dance, movies and countless other fields will be robbed of originality soon enough.
In the 2030's some of the best musicians in the world won't know how to play a single instrument or even remotely be able to sing without massive auto tuning efforts. Some of our most successful authors will abuse AI assistance to the point that their only talent was to create AI models that attempted to mimic human creativity or they asked existing AI models creative enough questions or output results needed to get such incredible books. The human responsible for having the AI creating the book may never typically read books themselves or might struggle to form an original thought on their own.
Soon enough most movies will have two completely different AI elements:
Either completely, modestly or lightly AI written scripts/stories for the actors to follow and portray for the viewers. And the other different aspect will be completely artificial actors, even deepfaking actors that have died many decades ago.
It's the AI writing of the script that robs humanity of original thinking & human creative efforts. Digital actors playing a part in a 100% human written script isn't robbing humanity of much as even those digital actors can capture facial expressions of real people portraying some other person's expressions/movements. | |
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[IOD]Snips
Super Regular
Speed Sniping
Master
| | | P: | 11/29/2024 04:39 EST |
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I don't view autotuning as damaging that badly. Not nearly like having AI writing melodies or lyrics in songs in any capacity.
You can have a wealthy teenager who owns a recording studio with millions of sound tracks, channel mixers & access to servers. Autotuning falls into these assistance tools, which if advanced enough can turn anybody into a perfect singer. Ultimately creativity is the foundation of success, as money doesn't guarantee natural talent which is a result of your DNA + the life of the person's emotional joys/pain/suffering.
You can have a homeless person hitting metal trashcans, bricks & 5 gallon plastic tubs with his self made drumsticks who is literally oozing with natural talent. With nearly no tools at his disposal his compulsion to reinvent hip-hop or create on a daily basis still plays out.
When natural talent in our artwork is no longer desired, fostered/developed, or even acknowledged due to our immediate AI ambitions we're going to have a bleak representation of culture in our future soon enough. | |
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It is what it is. AI is here to stay.
There's some really cool stuff you can do with it for music. I work with a kid who is a DJ and uses this program called Lalal which analyzes the audio of songs and you can extract instruments out of it (drums, vocals, etc.). This is useful for creating samples and loops, and, well, being a DJ. that kind of stuff is super cool to me.
But AI music generation is a very tough pill to swallow for creatives. Same thing with AI art and artists. I don't know if anyone here works in Graphics Design but if so, your job is threatened by this unless you adapt and learn to use AI as a tool to help.
Suno (arguably the "best AI music generation tool) just released their 4th version less than 2 weeks ago. https://suno.com/blog/v4
It basically can do anything you want, including lyrics assistance. It's going to keep getting better and better.
It's AWESOME if you have a vision and it makes it easy to help you create that vision. But passing it off as actual music created by humans is just a real sore spot for me and many of my music friends I know.
Again, it is what it is and there's nothing we can do to stop it.
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level1nobody
Super Regular
Evil Medic
| | | P: | 11/29/2024 14:32 EST | | E: | 11/30/2024 03:31 EST |
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I'm gonna both-sides this, because I see where everyone's coming from. (FWIW, I haven't listened to it yet, but will.)
I see where Kyree is coming from because taking a shortcut — and I don't mean that in a negative way — can help spark interest in a hobby and convince someone that the path to becoming a true musician may not be insurmountable. Like starting with "Hey, I did 5% of the creative work myself!" and then using progressively less AI and going to 10%, then 20% and so on until 100%. [what_about_bob__baby_steps.jpg]
It's funny how my friend and I were of two different mindsets when approaching a challenge. He wanted the absolute easiest way to accomplish something at a minimum and then move on to something else, where I wanted to front-load all the drudgery to get it out of the way. He went straight to tabs while I was trying to mentally correlate sheet music to strings/frets in real-time. I should have done it his way just to get some muscle memory in without worrying about all the other shit as a beginner. That would have given me an early sense of accomplishment.
But I respect where Illusion is coming from. I think how creative works are received is dependent on context and honesty up front — like letting people know what you claim to be and what you're trying to accomplish...
Take humor. Scenario: Someone told you about a joke they heard. It wasn't terribly funny. You assume they heard it from a comic or comedy writer and reply "Meh, not that great." Then they tell you that it was boring old Bob from accounting who came up with the joke on the spot during a meeting. Now you're thinking "Ok, in that context, that joke was pretty damn good."
Continuing on that theme, if Bob had ripped off a really funny joke and claimed it as his own, that would've invalidated the praise he got. Now I'm not saying you, Kyree, ripped anything off or actively tried to deceive us. But there's a dissonance between what you knew you were producing and what we all understood you to be producing.
So, not to nitpick (sorry), but I think the vibe of this forum thread would have been completely different if you'd lead with "Hey, I'm trying to get into making my own music and for this EP, I got some help from AI in hopes it would give me a glimpse of my potential as a professional songwriter and producer." In any case, it's cool that you made this happen. I won't bore you with how my brain works but suffice it to say, it is insane how impossible it seems for me to focus on doing the things in which I've had a life-long interest. So, respect. | |
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XenOz3r0xT
Super Regular
Shotgun Quick
Draw
| | P: | 11/29/2024 18:09 EST |
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| kyree wrote:
Lemme preface this with....so because I am not an establish artist I shouldn't ever hold a paint brush....eat a swollen bag of fermented dicks
Lemme roll my sleeves up for this one...kyree style...xeno...how high did your last album chart..what have you ever contributed to the art? Unsolicited opinions die soon as they are spoken...can you spell entendre without spellcheck?
Illusion when I posted this I knew for a fact you'd come for it...and so glad to hear from a "real musician" <eyeroll> for real Jimmy? First of all no need to ever apologize for asking me questions! You didn't put me on blast cuz you know dawned well I don't lie and I don't hide
I find it ironic that you hear the off bitrates then recommend the same AI I used to add a musical place holder to MY handwritten lyrics...I have very little musical training...cello from 3rd grade to 6th...still can't read sheet music...I can limp through a rythmn with some tab...I'm not an engineer..never touch anything bigger than a tascam 4 track...but I grew up around bands...I know what I like and I know what I wanna hear...this shit for me is therapeutic...I deal with addiction, death, sexual abuse, fucked up marriage, family disappointments....shit my mom was dead for 5 months and no one told me till they needed my signature to get to the estate...physical pain...and trauma just like everyone else...I decided to channel my energy into something positive...did you listen to any of the lyrics..or did you go in to debunk my talent?
"You hope you're wrong"? Nah I doubt that's the case...
what you did do is open a path for discussion...
So...I'm a poor white trash addict who's been sober almost 2 years...who the fuck has the money to hire a band...hire an engineer, producer...BTW my shit went to mixing and mastering 2 days ago...respect the grind...I made this shit for me and anyone else it can help...my shit will be at BMI and with any luck SESAC will invite me...regardless if I ever sell a copy of anything...my shit as a songwriter will be catelogued....that's fucking for ever...how many of you critics can say that?
Should I have said..I employed Ai instead of paying studio musicians...nah mfers...one of the most influential people in my life gave me the greatest advice ever... "never reveal the process unless asked, because then it becomes about that, not the
message" That same successful recording artist is mixing and mastering my shit
I wouldnt ever shit on anything positive you did, why am I not afford the same respect
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So when you and illusion going to make out like this? I didn't bother to read what you said and only acknowledge you said my name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbo-HfVZdUs
Also I stand my decision on AI and autotuned artists. Like at this point let whoever programmed the AI take credit and make the $$$. The artist(s) are just figureheads at that point. Hence the issue with AI used in lots of things now a day and I feel artists getting caught using autotune was the start.
https://soundscapemastering.com/singers-who-use-autotune/
https://songwriterspad.com/ai-lyric-writing-ethical-legal-co...
In fact, that is probably why we have so many boy bands ever since the 90s and there is a group popping up almost every other week like look at the Korean boy bands. | |
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[IOD]Snips
Super Regular
Speed Sniping
Master
| | | P: | 11/29/2024 18:41 EST |
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The Photoshop tool for altering images has been using a blend of AI for a while. If this were music instead of pictures, this blurs the lines between something like autotune and the core of the song being created completely by AI. Like with Photoshop you can remove somebody from a photograph, or extend a structure or building and drastically change that picture. This still requires some creativity from the user, but much less than it used to as the effort & creative freedom gets removed with every version. Obviously in the future the result of simply saying "AI draw me this picture" and out comes the perfect photo will completely exclude all human creativity. By extension the same thing occurs with music melody/structure/lyrics when AI assists or completely composes songs.
Just remember while software tools allow for more possibility, but raw AI substitutes your creative possibilities with robotic made versions of art. Saying AI is here to stay & everyone's AI model needs to compete with everyone else's isn't a healthy excuse some of you are making or suggesting either. We will see a future where no artists, authors or musicians will exist anymore and the start of that journey began now. | |
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[IOD]Snips
Super Regular
Speed Sniping
Master
| | | P: | 11/29/2024 18:42 EST |
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Kyree I want to mention that I'm just venting my opinions on the current & future usage of AI in general. My messages are not a reflection of your musical submission. I didn't get a chance to listen to it yet.
Thank you for sharing your work & I respect that as it takes courage to do so in this day and age, just realize the topics of AI are hot & interesting to discuss. I'm sorry myself and others have sort of went off course in your thread. | |
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Kyree was/is the man. One of the OG D2F people that I remember from my early years of playing here.
Hence why I am happy he is sober and grateful he's pursuing artistic interests.
I would be more than happy to try to help him on his musical journey if it ever comes to it. | |
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