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 | Team balance is broken | |
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O_C_D
Super Regular
Evil Medic
| | P: | 08/14/2022 07:55 EST |
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I have seen the recent posts explaining how NASA rocket surgeons have algorithimized the turbo encabulator to balance the teams. i'm just here to report it is broken.
9 v 17 isn't balanced.
it's really 9 vs 6 with 11 noobs or people not giving a shit about the "team goal" of the game.
I have an idea: how about red vs blue even stevens, where the balancer puts you on the team with LESS PEOPLE. AUTOMATICALLY.
two blues quit? bottom red score gets moved to blue.
it will be better than this algebraic nonsense where 9 vs 17 is equal. 9 v 17 may make some mathmatic sense on some spreadsheet when x=y+1(previous round wins) +10% score.... but 9 vs 17 is just frustrating, and frustration definitely does not equal fun.
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O_C_D
Super Regular
Evil Medic
| | P: | 08/14/2022 10:14 EST |
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XenOz3r0xT
Super Regular
Shotgun Quick
Draw
| | P: | 08/14/2022 10:21 EST | | E: | 08/14/2022 10:26 EST |
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 | O_C_D wrote:
I have seen the recent posts explaining how NASA rocket surgeons have algorithimized the turbo encabulator to balance the teams. i'm just here to report it is broken.
9 v 17 isn't balanced.
it's really 9 vs 6 with 11 noobs or people not giving a shit about the "team goal" of the game.
I have an idea: how about red vs blue even stevens, where the balancer puts you on the team with LESS PEOPLE. AUTOMATICALLY.
two blues quit? bottom red score gets moved to blue.
it will be better than this algebraic nonsense where 9 vs 17 is equal. 9 v 17 may make some mathmatic sense on some spreadsheet when x=y+1(previous round wins) +10% score.... but 9 vs 17 is just frustrating, and frustration definitely does not equal fun.
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I assume you are referring to this match?
https://imgur.com/a/7SWjgP6
Keep in mind we were only able to get one flag. ONE MEASLY FLAG. Its not like we out capped you guys or had a huge lead. And it was thanks to everyone on red who was persistent to wear down your ENTIRE TEAM'S 15+ D manpower to find one extremely small window of opportunity to get a flag out. Blue did not have much newbs. In fact I think most were regulars with maybe 1-2 newbs (which I am guessing are on the bottom of the scoreboard not shown). I think it boils down to people not wanting to leave their comfort zone and help on O. You did have players that didn't take action until the last couple mins. There was no reason you guys couldn't have steamrolled us with shear numbers. Heck I even mentioned it in chat that I was expecting you all to come and was ready in the basement. I think even a few of us expected it too and stayed behind for a bit. But when only 1-3 of you came over consistently is when we started to wear down your team's defense little by little until we found one very small window of opportunity to get the flag out. I think the issue is not the balancer in this case (although it is for other cases) but more so people refuse to be fluid between O and D. Yeah I get it, D is very easy and most people can get a very pretty KDR when on D (I know I do almost always) but you can't win a game if you don't go O every once in a while.
Edit - I also noticed too that some people on blue quit (I asked in public chat). That is also another issue. I get it, people just say fuck it but even I stay when I get pub stomped. I mean is that what people did back in their 1999 clan days? Is it cool to do that? Heck I never did that in my competitive days for Battlefield. I accepted my loss/ defeat and move on to the next game. To be frank, I think that is how I got better by getting my ass kicked by you all when my team is getting destroyed and playing through it. I think the old saying is if you want to get better, then play against people that are better than you which in the case for me and TFC is when the teams are uneven/ outmatched against me. | |
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O_C_D
Super Regular
Evil Medic
| | P: | 08/14/2022 10:43 EST |
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lobsidedness isn't because one side has all the really great players. it's because the other side has to deal with the shitty ones who suck on the other.
shit players take bags and armor. play from spawn. infect their team. stand on the deck (and everywhere else) as obstacles.
dealing with shitty players is the crux, because it's super fun to be on a streamlined team with no fat or gristle. it's a whole new level when you throw in 9 players who just don't care. and i think everyone shold be dealing with them equally.
remember too, its not 1999 anymore, and almost everyone (except a few with a hard on for stats) play for FUN. damn, it's even in the name, if only jokingly.... both teams should have to partake in taking care of the babies at the daycare. not just 1. | |
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mmarino51589
Super Regular
Soldier Flag
Defense
|  | | P: | 08/14/2022 10:48 EST |
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Not sure how or why VOIDOBOT_ and xeno are on the same team in this situation
11 of the 15 players on Blue are negative K/D (like, significantly upsidedown in score)
6 of the 9 on red are highly in the positive.
Personally, I don't think that the match win/loss assessment by the team balancer is sufficient. I do agree that other metrics should be taken into account - though I don't have a proposal as to how to better balance it | |
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sp0t
Super Regular
Assault Cannon
Lover
| | | P: | 08/14/2022 11:00 EST | | E: | 08/14/2022 11:09 EST |
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Matt_tfc
Super Regular
Shotgun Quick
Draw
| | | P: | 08/14/2022 11:19 EST |
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Reckoner
Super Regular
Crack-Powered Capper
| | | P: | 08/14/2022 11:27 EST |
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B4bWAOlVD2MlR0FkwP9S5yvobx3...
This one was a bit odd too >__< Not how this team came to be. :o Current match Quality: 57% (average: 53%) - I guess you could expect to win here. :/
There was also a match where Tanya was being extra weird and decided to "call out" Upset for being a cap ho (or something)... Which is like, I dunno WTF? xD Let's discuss the objective of the map/game. :x
Tanya also switched from the losing team to the winning team that round, I wonder why x__x
It was this round I think, given the message in-game :P
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZnXwai9zeVY7B2c9MN9QzlVvR9i...
Also.. ROFL @ Matt, what is that xD haha - Upset & brah both as snipers as well?
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sp0t
Super Regular
Assault Cannon
Lover
| | | P: | 08/14/2022 11:33 EST | | E: | 08/14/2022 11:50 EST |
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^I'm in both of those, too. I think I have it figured out. I get put on the power teams to lower its quality. If the likes of UPSET is worth +4 players, I must be worth -4. Balancer magic :p
*EDIT: I remember that last (screenshot) game due to the "report tanya" chat. She(?) was doing some especially weird things that game like building teleporter traps to our own water spiral | |
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Murf
Super Regular
Killer Scout
Supreme
| | | P: | 08/14/2022 11:43 EST |
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I rq'ed a game yesterday like that where I was on blue with 7 guys, 3 of which had negative K/d's and I had to report for griefing on purpose. Red had 9 guys was leading by 3 caps and Fred + Jodi both autojoined and got put on Red. | |
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gg#4
Super Regular
Killer Scout
| | | P: | 08/14/2022 11:53 EST | | E: | 08/14/2022 11:54 EST |
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Its always the same people on the low quantity but high quality lopsided match screenshots...I wonder why that is...its almost as if the balancer can be gamed and people deliberately stack teams so they can play with their buddies and have an easier time at the game.
Isnt that the reverse of suffering through a match with incooperative players? Deliberately making matches easier. If it was so fun to just get rekt why would they do that?
Regardless of their "regular" status, I think most of us can agree that not all regulars have the same game mentality. Some have even given them names like "grapes" and the better regulars "grapefruits."
But for your defense over lopsided games lets pretend all regulars are the same. Lets blame the people who quit as not trying to get better. | |
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nesemann
Super Regular
Rocket Jumping
Capper
| | | P: | 08/14/2022 13:29 EST |
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When the teams are 13 v 13 with strong players on both sides, the game is unremarkable. Perhaps there should be a thread complaining that the balancer is broken and only gives boring, all-defense games? | |
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O_C_D
Super Regular
Evil Medic
| | P: | 08/14/2022 13:35 EST |
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the server literally keeps track, and rewards, K/D ratios. More kills, more bucks, etc.
Similarly to BUCKS and SNOWBALLS, you start to lose health for 4minutes spent in your own base.
rewarding defenses will continue to yeild 0 sum games. watch stat hounds live in the NME base if kills in there were worth double! | |
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Last night was really odd. 2 games in a row were 16v9 at one point and the 16 lost one of the games. I agree the win vs loss isn't necessarily the best way to balance. I actually think kills to deaths is a better way. Not because better k/d means better player, but because it would balance the offense & defense players better. Most better k/d play D and most of the worse k/d play O.
That being said, most players don't play true defense anyways. Blocking the ele or the spiral is true defense. Setting up an SG in the basement is true defense, particularly if you stick around to defend it. Players playing on the defense side to get kills helps the D, but its not true D. I hate the games where I'm playing at ele and the other team comes at me 2 or 3 times, knows where I am, then constantly goes spiral. I call it out & no one stops them. Then I switch to spiral and the opponent switches to ele a few minutes later. Am I bragging that I'm a good player? No. I have little skill. I can't bhop, I'm not good at timing grenades. I just play a good position and am fairly good at anticipating what the enemy will try next. I start some games, head to the ele, and someone is playing there. Good. I go to the spiral. A minute later I hear the call that the enemy has come down the ele. I check and the player defending the ele was apparently there 30 seconds and got bored, so we have no ele defense. More players need to play actual defense, although I suppose the game would be boring if both teams actually had strong defense.
Oh, back to my point. While the game should be played to capture or defend the flag, most players play just to get a lot of kills and try not to die. I can have a good defensive game with no one getting by me, but still lose the game in a landslide because the enemy is going the other way. So the wins vs losses balance doesn't really reflect skill much. There are a few players who play regularly who can significantly positively affect who wins/loses, but not many. And yes, dealing with the frustrations of newbies, trolls, and just plain lousy players can also affect who wins/loses.
It also surprises me how many regulars don't understand simple spy checks. I shoot them once as a soldier, not even hurting their armor and they either just stop and stare at me for 30 seconds (until an enemy player kills them) or start unloading every shot they have on me.
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